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12 January 2008

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Sadie Elliott

Great post. I will be interested to read your second article.

Jennifer

Propoganda. Maybe I'm jaded and cynical, but sometimes I think that the state is out to take over parenting altogether! Over here we find that the goal of our schools seem to be to produce good citizens rather than whole people. That is not MY goal, so therefore, we do homeschool. And therefore we either have to cram for the "social studies" part of the yearly testing, or resolve to miss the questions altogether and simply live with it.

Anyway, that is slightly divergent, but what I'm saying is this: could it be that these kind of figures are aimed at weakening the resolve of parents to care for their own children - or to HAVE more than one child?

Until you have a child of your own, you cannot understand well the meaninglessness of such blabberings.

Sue

Well, it hasn't cost us anything like that much to raise our children. As you say, there's free medical care and schooling in the UK. I didn't go back to work, and found that Child Benefit covered just about everything else for the first ten years - I actually kept a note of it. I didn't include food - I breastfed, and then the boys ate whatever we were eating, so the added grocery bill wasn't much - but clothes, toys, school trips etc all came out of child benefit. We didn't buy luxury items, and got most school uniform second-hand, and went to places like Bewise for clothes.

When they were teenagers we home educated, and that did cost us about £50 per month on supplies, as we followed a curriculum after the first few years (and bought other books/CDs etc to get us started before that). But it would have been less had we'd remained in the UK. Clothes, however, cost rather less as they lasted longer, and we had friends who passed down their used clothes. Pocket money was about £15 per month, and thankfully they never spent any of it on alcohol or cigarettes. And we still had Child Benefit until they turned 16, even living abroad.

marie

Seriously, I don't know why you keep feeling the need to tie it back to abortion. Yes, there's definitely a different view of parenting nowadays, more is no longer considered better, kids are considered more of a financial liability than a financial asset since they no longer work on the family farm... but it still doesn't keep people from having children.

One would think that if the costs were so overwhelming to people that they would never have kids or would stop at one, but no they often go on to have 2 or 3 kids (I think the rate is 2.5 in the US) You have a good point about how we expect more material things for our kids and look at them as necessities when they aren't, but it still has nothing to do with whether a woman will choose to terminate a pregnancy.

Buffy

Marie, I am tying it back to abortion because it was part of the series on how to reduce the number of abortions that take place, although I do think that this is a much bigger issue overall. You should read the first post which explains what is going on: http://buffy68.typepad.com/buffys_salon/2007/10/i-wrote-on-an-e.html
Basically I am arguing that in order to reduce the number of abortions that take place we need to make changes within society rather than make abortion illegal.

The second most common type of reason that women quote for having an abortion are socioeconomic ones. That is to say lack of financial support from the father of the child, unemployment or the inability to 'afford' further children etc.

Also, whilst I support the right of anybody to make a choice of how many children they want, an average of less than two per woman, as it is in the UK, is very low when you think how big families used to be. In many countries the overall population is actually declining.

marie

But you are reaching when you suggest that those socio-economic reasons have to do with the fact that these women can't afford space camp, designer diaper bags, and a million lessons for their children, when there is absolutely no evidence of that being the case. I agree that there is a lack of support for poor, single mothers (lack of affordable childcare, health care, etc.) and rectifying that may make some difference in giving women more options, but to suggest that abortion is chosen for such frivolous reasons is insulting.

You might find this study interesting, though it's a little old now. It gives statistics on who got abortions, and the biggest groups tended to be unmarried and in poverty. IN POVERTY, not "unable to afford designer toddler duds" but "unable to afford food and doctor bills." Here affordable childcare does become an important factor when we're talking about ways that might reduce abortions because we're talking about single mothers. To compare these women to middle class married couples is comparing apples to oranges- and insulting the apples. The societal outlook you suggest might have an effect on married couples choosing to have more kids, but it'll do nothing for the poor, single, and increasingly minority women who are faced with this decision.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3422602.pdf

It's an American study, but the statistics are likely similar in the UK. Like I said before, you have a point... there is a societal tendency towards fewer kids- but it still has nothing to do with why women have abortions. When you show me the study with predominantly white upper middle class women having abortions because they are worried about affording their fifteen hundred pound nursery, then you can make that claim.

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